Deeper Look Into Enchantments

Wicked Feedback
1

General Thoughts

I’ve made a post in the past about Enchantment ideas and at the time I thought they could improved and they can be but only so much right now. It’s a little extra but I’ve been comparing and contrasting affixes from various ARPGs (Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, Last Epoch, etc.) and I’ve come to the conclusion there are not enough facets to gameplay to use in the Enchantments. To demonstrate here are some of the “levers” that can be pulled for variety in some of the other games.

ARPGs

Path of Exile

  • Ability Charges
  • Accuracy Rating
  • Critical Strikes
  • Elemental Damage
  • Elemental Resistances
  • Stats
  • Resource (i.e. Mana)
  • Projectile Count
  • Blocking
  • Enemy Piercing
  • Minion Count
  • Auras
  • Resource Reservation
  • Socketed Gems
  • Area Damage
  • Area of Effect Size
  • Fortified
  • Blind
  • Taunt
  • Attack Speed
  • Impale
  • Flask (Charges, Recovery Rate, Effects, Duration)
  • Status Effects
  • Cast Speed
  • Various Skills

There are more for Path of Exile but the list becomes quite long.

Diablo IV

  • Life
  • Thorns
  • Armor
  • Elemental Resistances
  • Increase to Skill Ranks
  • Stats
  • Resource
  • Healing
  • Attack Speed
  • Lucky Hit Effects
  • Critical Strikes
  • Damage Over Time (DoT)
  • Dodge
  • Elemental Damage
  • Evade
  • Vulnerable
  • Cooldown Reduction
  • Various Skills
  • Overpower
  • Fortify
  • Summons
  • Elites
  • Blocking

Regardless of one’s thoughts regarding Diablo IV it’s seen as the entry level into ARPGs so it’s good to have as a base for comparison as well.

No Rest for the Wicked

  • Health
  • Stamina
  • Focus
  • Armor
  • Armor Type (Cloth, Mesh, Plate, etc.)
  • Runes
  • Weapon Type
  • Charged Attacks
  • Normal Attacks
  • Elemental Damage
  • Elemental Resistances
  • Durability
  • Stats
  • Gems
  • Dashes
  • Parry

Consensus

The goal of this is to show that Wicked does not fall between the low of complexity and the high. Depth needs to be added which is possible when Moon Studios reworks the elements like they plan to but that’s only part of it. Truthfully I cannot say what they should add to the game for this depth, I don’t know what they have in mind for the future. In the same vein, there could be more complexity in the works they have not divulged yet to the public. All I can do is comment on how things are currently and Moon Studios can decide what to listen to.

Ultimately, this is the reason many builds devolve into Focus spam because there are few avenues to build into. Not only is it the strongest route to go but it’s one of the only few. The way games gain depth is usually through the idea of “keywords”. Some examples:

Health

  • Health per Second
  • Life on Kill
  • Maximum Health
  • Low / High Life

Resource

  • Resource per Second
  • Resource on Kill
  • Maximum Resource
  • Low / High Resource
  • Reservation (Path of Exile and Hades II)

Skills

  • Cooldown
  • Cost
  • Area of Effect
  • Specific Mechanics (i.e. More Projectiles)

Conditions

  • Chilled, Frozen, Stunned, Slowed, etc.
  • Duration
  • Stacks

It is through the use of keywords and additional systems (i.e. Flasks in Path of Exile, or Runewords in Diablo II) that create the required depth. I definitely could have downplayed or ever embellished in some areas of this post when making my comparisons which is part of the reason why I want to post this. I want to start some dialogue on this again because the game’s systems will ultimately what give this game longevity, especially if Wicked was advertised as revolutionizing the ARPG genre.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

2 Likes
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Let’s say the Fireball rune has multiple charges, a recharge rate and a projectile speed. Those are already 3 new affixes that can be added to the game. Hell, you can even add aoe explosions on hitting enemies.

Maybe we have a new rune that shoots icicles and we can increase the amount of projectiles, increased range, wider arc or they can even penetrate thru the first enemy they hit. Might not be valuable with how little mob density we have.

I still think this would be better as rune augments as they add more depth to the specific rune etc.

But, in terms of general playstyle. We realistically have 3 playstyles right now for melee. I don’t play ranged/mage.

  • Auto Attack Build
  • Focus Neutral Spam
  • Hybrid

There is barely nothing that builds upon charged attacks. And, even if there were, there are so few weapons with actual charge attacks.

But, I think that the lack of depth on affixes/enchants stems from the other elements in the game lacking depth. Affixes and enchants further build upon what is in the game. They really shot themselves in the foot with how they made their classless system and runes.

I think that if the talent tree works similar to how Stoneshard lets you build a character they have a recipe for success. I think they just need to create something that they can further build upon. So Stoneshard has unique weapon abilities in the way that each weapon has its own skill tree. Then you have utility trees such as Dual Wielding, Warfare, Athletics and Armored Combat. As well as Sorcery trees with Pyromancy Electromancy etc. That combination of skill trees is your class. Enchanting can then further build upon something. Like the conditions you mentioned: Chilled, Frozen, Stunned, Slowed etc.

Runes also lack unique effects, maybe some can apply armor down or enhance crit strike. Maybe one with increased crit damage vs staggered foes. We just need to have a more clear idea on build paths so they can add affixes that further that playstyle.

We currently have 4 different offensive stats: Strength, Faith, Dexterity and Intelligence. This means there are 10 different ways to build your character stat wise. When we look at it that way Talent Trees should offer unique ways to build your character relative to those stats.

That basis is currently lacking, therefore affixes are lacking.

Just to give an example:

Let’s say we want to make a 2h axe build, currently they all play the same as any 2h build. But, what if in the future with the talent tree 2h axes focus on armor shred and applying bleed effects. We pick another tree that focusses on mesh armor or some berserk stuff with low health more damage mitigation and damage. Then we have a basis for our affixes. We can pick stuff that uses Bleed as a condition or increases the potency/chance. We could have unique runes that apply armor down, more bleed, or one that deals more damage the more bleeds the enemy has. It adds depth to gameplay as we now have a rotation and we can look for specific affixes that enhance our playstyle.

4

Agreed. But, my point is more that there is a lack of depth in building our characters and that translates to a lack of depth in terms of affixes. With the latest group of affixes it really feels like they are just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. I would prefer it if the Talent Tree largely determines our build and the enchantments further the build.

I don’t think runes are that unique outside of their animations. I would prefer less runes but with more mechanical distinctions. I think it would also be easier to understand for newer players if the purpose of runes was more clear. And, even with augments I still think we need access to 4 runes on purples/blues. Probably a bit greedy of me, but I am fine with that.

5

Ideally this is how it works. Most will go into Wicked with the idea of a class they want to play like any other ARPG. The difference is it’s “classless” so the Talent Tree would have to do the heavy lifting and Enchantments would help fill in the gaps. And having more avenues for the Talent Tree to affect will make choices feel more impactful.

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Yeah, this right here. There are the ‘‘evasive’’ and ‘‘dodge’’ runes as well as the whirlwinds, I like those. But, rather than having 10 different ‘"Deal Damage’’ runes. We can have runes that:

  • Lower Enemy Defense for X seconds
  • Apply Bleed
  • 100% crit chance on hitting staggered enemies

Just as an example, they could then deal less base damage.

9

Depends on whether it can stack, uptime, probability etc. But, I would then want it where it has 100% chance to be applied and have a decent duration where you aren’t spamming it. And, then we can have an affix that allows us to deal more damage to bleeding enemies. Or a rune that also does this.

I think the more elements there are to combat, the more varied our affixes can be. I’m down with talents being more akin to the unique effects in the crucible and doing special stuff and affixes being static that expand upon the talent tree.

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I don’t know about the Talent Tree but Thomas did say that the Crucible’s recent additions paved the way for future Enchantments.

13

They should be open.

14

off topic i know, but i really get anxiety when i see all these posts about enchantments. can we not summarize it all in one topic? every day there is a new post about enchantment suggestions and i feel the urge to summarize them all, but then again, my day has only 24 ours :sob:

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I did make a mistake of having yet another thread. :sweat_smile: I would have preferred Enchantments and Crafting been a priority since the game is marketed as an ARPG and these are pivotal to its systems.

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I think an archival post like @BowUser suggested could be a good idea.

For me it is the other way around, I get my confirmation bias kick :joy:

But, I do think it would appreciated by us as community if the devs addressed our concerns or something. If they would mention it in the roadmap that would be amazing.

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Sadly the only details for either we have are Enchantments 2.0 on the horizon and the eventual Scribe’s Table. We have little information beyond that.

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honestly, when i work with some complex topics and i have 10 files with information it just drains all productivity out of me. i am sure it would help to at least try and keep it in one place, and not open 10000s of threads.

we are all human. what happens if your thread is on page 100 of the enchantment threads. yeah right, it gets overlooked. channeling our input is a win win situation. and should i have a bit more time within the next few weeks, i will try and consolidate things. but its almost impossible to gather all threads and summarize them. it might take days for just 1 topic.

so while i can see the point of getting the “confirmation kick”, i think the better kick would be for things to be actually summarized in a readable format, so it can be acknowledged and be put into production :slight_smile:

20

Honestly, I think it would be wasted effort to summarize all suggestions from past posts. And, I am fairly sure the devs have been actively reading them and maybe highlighting some suggestions internally.

We could make a forum community problem statement regarding Enchanting & Crafting and invite everyone who is interested in discussing it. We have a group chat function on the forum, could use it for that. Would prevent us, regular users, from clogging the forum with new topics and repeating what we think :joy:

Basically a joint problem statement, general issues etc and maybe some suggestions presented in a bullet list.

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i think a “thread to rule them all” some sort of archive thread would be best. new posts could be merged to that and the OP edited respectively with links to all sub threads.