Combat Breakdown - The current state and where things go from here

So infinite Focus and infinite Health on hit are gone. Brilliant, fantastic, important and necessary change. Now the devs need to look at the fallout from this, because all sorts of potential issues were being hidden behind the bigger issue of broken affixes. The two key things which come front and centre as a result of the affix changes are:

  • The relative balance of normal weapon movesets against each other and against Runes/Parries/Backstab
  • Healing/Sustain over time during challenging content

Removing infinite Focus means you can no longer play the game by mashing Rune attacks into every enemy. This is a good thing, but Rune attacks were hiding a bunch of problems with enemy poise and weapon movesets because Rune attacks were/are extremely strong and would reliably stagger/stunlock everything while doing massive damage and costing no stamina. Most of the early game combat complaints can be tied back to players now having to use other methods of approaching a fight and struggling because those other methods are much more difficult to use or in some cases are poorly tuned. Let’s think of your options for attacking regular overworld enemies like this:

Rune attacks - Reliably interrupt enemies on hit, can ignore shields, deal high damage, cost no stamina, may have invulnerability or hyperarmour
Parry - Reliably interrupts enemies on use, doesn’t care about shields, generates massive Focus for more rune attacks, gives a large window for free damage
Backstab - Reliably interrupts enemies on use, doesn’t care about shields, not stamina limited, high damage, makes you invulnerable, gives a window for more free damage
Regular attacks with your weapon - Can fail to interrupt even weak enemies, bounce off shields leaving you vulnerable, can be parried by enemies, cost a lot of stamina, deal low damage, generate very little focus, have long animation commitments which leave you vulnerable to fast enemies which don’t get staggered

So relative to other available options… regular weapon movesets are awful. Some of them are much more awful than others. This is a problem for new players because hitting things in the face with your sword is presumed to be the DEFAULT approach to combat in this kind of game, and is the option everybody is going to go for when sat in front of the game for the first time. We should acknowledge that trying to kill a lot of these regular overworld enemies with the basic attacking moveset of a lot of these weapons is a miserable experience.

Now obviously Runes/Parries/Backstabs are more situational or resource limited and they SHOULD be stronger than using basic and charged attacks, but it’s not natural to expect first time players to tackle basic cloth armoured bandit enemies at the start of the game by parrying them or in-combat backstabbing them to death just because their starting weapon doesn’t interrupt them on hit. You can’t balance combat around randomly rolled enchant affixes or one obscure Rune on a vendor or gameplay options which people will perceive to be niche approaches. Players want to swing their sword, weapon and moveset choice are part of the melee player fantasy, swinging that weapon needs to be a more viable way to approach the game.

Let me be clearer about what this means. If I am a player on the beach with a slowish one handed Mace as a weapon, and I come across a ranged enemy throwing firebombs, if I wait for the throw to roll past the bomb into melee range and smack that ranged enemy in the face with my slow mace, I do not expect to see that enemy ignore the hit and flurry me to death with a dagger. This isn’t what anybody coming into the game with any genre experience would expect to happen, there is an expectation that the kind of attack you are using would interrupt the kind of enemy you are attacking and No Rest subverts that expectation constantly. Now can you use charged attacks on the T1 mace to get an interrupt on this enemy? Yes and that is viable because the charged attacks on this mace in particular are as fast as the regular swings. Is that intuitive? Not at all. Does this apply to other weapons? No because some of the weapons in this poise damage range don’t have charged attacks, or their charged attacks are really bad, or their charged attacks still don’t interrupt this enemy despite them being extremely slow and short range such as the dagger charged attacks.

This is a problem in Breach specifically because if you can’t access infinite Focus then you do have to use the regular movesets on the weapons, and some of them are awful. There’s a reason you see so many content creators running Greatswords or similar giant weapons at the start of the game, it’s because they are the only weapons where the normal attack moveset interrupts enemies in the way a souls player would expect them to. Not being able to reliably interrupt enemies even when your hit lands first feels awful and so many weak enemies have fast attack animations which do not seem to be designed for them to be stagger-proof. You can of course beat all of these enemies comfortably with any weapon because every weapon can parry or backstab, but it is a bad idea to expect players to approach every weak enemy on the beach like this. The relative balance between regular attacks, Runes, backstabs and parrying needs to be adjusted so that a guy with a sword will most commonly approach combat by hitting things with his sword, because this is what new players expect, this is what the player fantasy is.

To that end I think the most important thing for combat right now is to have a balance pass of regular weapon attacks and enemy poise values so that enemies which feel like you should be able to safely hit them with your sword can be safely hit with your sword. I would look especially at ranged/caster/runaway enemies which are frustrating to chase down (They can be frustrating to chase down as long as you get to maul them when you get in) and also the amount of Focus generated from regular weapon swings vs parrying.

Cont.

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The other topic which is an big issue now in Breach is sustained healing, because you no longer heal yourself to full for free every time you hit something with a multi-hit Focus attack.

I like having limited healing. I like that when healing is a strictly limited resource like food it feels like every bit of damage I take matters so I constantly have to think about what I’m doing and play to avoid damage where possible. The problem is this mechanic has wildly different outcomes based on how well the player is doing.

Those who are doing well because they are skilled or their character is powerful relative to the content, or who got lucky with enchant affixes will need very little healing so they will constantly increase their food stockpile and feel little or no friction. Those who are struggling because they’re new to the game or have an underpowered character and are stuck at a particular section will run out of food, be forced to farm for more, run into plant respawn limits and then be constantly in a position where they are “behind” on healing at all times.

This is the issue, it’s an extreme Win Harder / Lose Harder system that is exceptionally punishing to the people who are having the most difficulty with the game while providing no friction for those who are doing well. To compare to other games which have used this system - Bloodborne is extremely generous with Blood Vials and vials are also a natural drop from enemies you kill, not a separate gathering system you need to spend time on. Even with those generous vial drops BB goes out of the way to place respawning vial drops in several places of expected friction, such as the enemy which drops 7? vials right before Ludwig so you always have spare healing going into the fight regardless of how many times you’ve failed. Wicked’s version of limited healing is the most punishing system for struggling players that I am aware of, even considering Fromsoft games and I say this as a veteran who is not struggling but can see the problem.

Given the complaints regarding this I really think healing is something Moon Studios are going to have to cave on. I know Thomas doesn’t like the idea of an Estus because bonfire resets don’t mesh with multiplayer, but consider a hybrid system where a flask refills up to a limited number of heals based on enemies killed, using a bar system with stronger enemies filling more of a flask. The flask doesn’t have to be the sole method of healing and you could limited it to only a few sips, but simply having this as a baseline would work as a welfare system to curb the Lose Harder nature of limited food.

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So to give some specific examples for this:

Enemies
Firebomb/Dagger guy ignores normal attacks from Swords, Maces, Spears, Scythes?, The 2nd light of the Curved Greatsword??
Bloathead dart spitter ignores all the above
Explodey Sirens ignore all the above
Crossbow man ignores the above
Birdman archers/crow throwers ignore all the above
Plauge worms may not have any stagger animation at all and just ignore anything you do to them

Note that these enemies can be often interrupted by charged attacks from these weapon classes, but on some of these weapons the regular attacks are SLOWER than the charged attacks so seeing the slower, weaker regular attack fail to flinch some guy in cloth with a dagger is unintuitive and silly to a new player. That’s before mentioning the weapons which have no charged attacks or have unusably bad charged attacks. The change made to teleporting fire witches was great and the same should probably be done to any similarly annoying ranged enemy.

Weapons
2 of the early Fist weapons have a fast charged right hook which reliably interrupts things that you’d expect it to interrupt and feels great to use, but the normal attacks are pointlessly bad in comparison. This becomes a problem when some of the later fist weapons have equivalent normal attacks with no charged attack at all making their regular moveset unusably bad. The Claws having no charged attack and just a dedicated fast stabbing moveset is probably fine if you just up the DPS of the normal attack slightly, it can be a dedicated big enemy killer since it’s not a starting weapon, but the gauntlets with bad normals and no charge need help.

Several weapons have individual attacks which have a cancel point set right at the end of the flourish animation which feels awful and seems like a mistake. Example - The running attack on Petaled Spear is a delayed thrust, which is fine, but after the thrust your character is stuck in an abnormally slow recovery which you can’t even roll out of until you’ve had a tea break. This looks like it should have a cancel point shortly after the thrust finishes but the cancel point is missing so you have to sit through the whole flourish and return to neutral. In Light weight this becomes your rolling attack, which bricks the weapon.

The majority of daggers have charged attacks which are slow, very short range and also don’t interrupt anything making them totally useless. If I’m struggling with a weapon that is failing to interrupt some weak enemy on hit I might try to line up a charged attack to get a hit in safely, seeing these big slow, small charged stabs also fail to flinch things is nonsense. It’s reasonable for the fast dagger hits to not flinch, but dagger charged attacks are as slow as a greatsword with 1/3rd of the range

Cleric’s Mace - You get stuck for a long time at the end of the 2nd light/charged attack like it’s missing a cancel point

Divine Scimitar - The 2nd normal attack is a short ranged spin with low poise damage. The first normal before this knocks enemies away so the start of the spin basically always misses, and if it hits then it fails to interrupt enemies that a curved greatsword should be interrupting on hit, making it feel terrible. Rolling attack and running attack have abnormally slow recovery and look like they’re missing a cancel point

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Very nice feedback. One thing I disagree with is the healing flask. I think that the game needs to tell the player better that it’s fine to backtrack more, it’s fine to walk away from a boss fight to get more exp, better gear, better food, etc. That’s what elden ring did and everyone loved it, right? That the game doesn’t forces you to linear playthrough. Maybe give player a belt slot for one support rune? And you get healing aura as your first rune? I think that would fix a lot of complaints.

You mean the game with an Estus flask? Elden Ring doesn’t do this, you can sit there attempting a boss as many times as you like in Elden Ring without ever being forced to leave and farm because your healing regenerates on death.

There are likely a lot of different ways to address this problem but there’s a reason Estus is one of the most frequently copied Fromsoft mechanics, because it solves a fairly universal problem in a good way. At the same time I think most recent Soulslikes give the player too much free healing which takes the weight and meaning out of any damage that doesn’t outright kill the player. You need to find a compromise which isn’t as punishing for struggling players as the current setup.

I wasn’t pointing to flask, but the exploration aspect that you get stronger by backtracking/exploring and like I said I see people talking about healing aura and how it changes the game for them. That’s why I proposed the idea of belt slot with rune slot for it. Where you can put healing aura or any other support rune. If you don’t have problem with food you can put something more useful then healing aura there.