Hello Team!
Thank you for taking time to read this, and I hope you all are doing well. I wanted to provide some insight into my initial completion of the game, and offer up some ideas where I can. In all transparency, I started a playthrough of this game when early access first started, but got stuck and didn’t play it again until after the latest release (breach was a good time). Here goes:
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Figuring things out
The beginning of the game does a great job of introducing the core combat and exploration loops. I love the amount of space the player is given to explore off the beaten path right from the start, while still moving them towards Sacrament. The amount of loot you get isn’t overwhelming and gives an idea of some of the things you can look forward to. The first thing I think could be helpful is making a set of chests in Mariners keep static on that first run-through. Instead of putting anything truly gamebreaking in these chests, put a selection of weapons that would allow the player to experiment in the first levels with each weapon type (or maybe a select 5/6, EX: bow / dagger / sword & shield / Hammer or Greatsword / Staff / melee gloves). These chests could despawn once the player has entered into the Orban Glades.
The reason I suggest this is due to my first run, in which I didn’t get a weapon until halfway through the Keep. I picked up a greatsword (Claymore is amazing btw) and had a great time learning its ins and outs. However, I didn’t know what stats to build at this point and shoved a bunch into strength and a little into stam and health. As the levels grew and difficulty increased, I felt stuck with my greatsword since I worried switching would mean going through an entirely new learning curve and those enemies were relentless.
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Stats
As mentioned above, I didn’t really understand early on what the game wanted me to do with my stats. I didn’t need to level my strength stat too much because my claymore didn’t require it. I kitted it out in town, piled some fun runes on it, and went about my day. I knew that later on I would need a new one with better runes, preferably cursed so I could play with the stats, but otherwise put more points into equipment load so I could avoid the dreaded fat roll. I also felt I needed the buff to weight due to how hard some of the enemies hit. That first boss could 3 tap me if I wasn’t careful, and dodging always left me in range of his attacks. With my heavy armor and lighter weight, I could at least dodge more effectively. At about halfway through the game (getting into the meadows) I started noticing some issues.
I finally had a second claymore drop (and it was cursed!) and immediately ran back to town to buff it and re-roll it’s stats. With my almost perfect weapon ready, I noticed my stats wouldn’t allow me to handle it properly. I was very confused, why could I handle this claymore from the beginning of the game with much better damage for its level? Why am I now required to have 42 strength to wield it? Then I looked at some of the other weapons I had: another greatsword that required 26 in each intelligence and strength, a hammer that require strength and intelligence. All things I was now unable to use properly because what I had been taught at the beginning of the game changed with no notification or explanation.
A thought I had on this would go as follows: Have the blacksmith comment on whatever weapon you have equipped when you visit from time to time, commenting on the archetype of the weapon and what kind of commitment they require as you grow in level (EX: “Slaying the hordes with a greatsword, eh? Mind your strength with that, it’ll give you an edge when you find its brethren.” or something quick). Another thought would be to limit the weapon pool based on character level / area and not change requirements for the more basic weapons (EX: Claymore 10 str → Corpse Smeared Blade 22 str → Festering Earth 42 str). You can still get drops of the lower tier gear, but the better runes are attached to the higher tiers (and can’t be removed much like the first bow rune). This would prevent my current situation, where I found an icebreaker at level 25, and realized that I couldn’t ever use it effectively due to my stat allocations. Now, I know you guys made a way to respec, so let’s move on to…
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The Crucible
My first comment here is more of a soul question for the game. I love the environment, the story, the characters, the vibes. You all have nailed it wonderfully. You are a Cerim, last in a line of heroic warriors who face the worst monstrosities the world has seen. So the question is: Why are you not allowed to feel like a Hero? I could rant on what Bungie has done to gut the core hero - shooter feel of their game, but it is a similar problem I am having here. To set the stage: I’ve just made it to town for the first time and get a mission for the crucible. I take myself over there, cut my hand, and make it about 7 rooms in before I am overwhelmed and killed off. “Oof, and there’s 5 more of these? I should grind a bit more before coming back and making another attempt”. After completing the remainder of the content (great job, btw) I decided to come back after learning that I could eventually re-spec my character after progressing in the crucible enough. But I couldn’t, nor did I, ever make it back to the 7’th room. My build sucked, I was still using my 10str claymore from the beginning of the game. Even with my fully upgraded armor and sword, I made it about 4 rooms at most over 5 runs.
So again, the question is why? I’m thinking the crucible as a piece of content is something you would want the player to engage with multiple times over the main story arch to earn a little bit more edge over the greater threats. So why then would you make it scale with the player? Should the crucible not be capped to a certain level for enemy difficulty if a player decides to come back a little overpowered? I’ve put in all of this effort to have my character survive the main campaign, only to be stuck with little ways to progress. I like the concept of the crucible as a whole, I just think its place would be better served if I had the option to come back and just stomp on the lower tier arenas. And maybe this way, it could be easier to unlock that re-spec option so I could try some of the other amazing builds as well.
As a side point (since this segment touches on combat), why the heck can archers stagger a dude 2 handling a hammer? Why can they literally back-jump out of screen bounds and continue attacking? It’s very frustrating when a ranged enemy (bird or otherwise) dodges you attack, hits you while dodging, rinse repeat until you can finally corner them. That backstep is murder for non-ranged / non-light weight characters.
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What hit the hardest
Ending on a high note here, whoever designed the story for these characters and the boss fights is a champion. While most of them felt more like “this person is doing bad things, I must kill them”, the hunters daughter was the most hauntingly beautiful fight I’ve experience in years. I teared up as that fight went on (which got me killed, but I’m not upset) and have enjoyed talking about that moment with my friends and family. 11/10, will play again if just for that fight. I feel that bossfight also hit a mechanical high-note for where a player should be at equipment and experience wise. Masterfully done.
I’m sure I will have more to add, as I am beginning a second playthrough as a mage (those youtubers make it look so simple. So far…it really has been with my base wand.) Thank you all so much for the world and story you are crafting, I can’t wait to play more. Make sure to sleep when you can!
I’ve been meaning to try playing with heavy weight to see how I like the full heavy armor with shield and shoulder charge approach. I don’t think being heavy is “dreaded,” is it?
It does suck that you spent all your stat points and got locked like that. Personally, I have experience with some games like this and know to save stat points and only use them as needed at first because I’m unsure how to allocate them. I also assumed that stat requirements will go up for gear as I progress. I did find it weird that only the weapon required stat progression and armor was a choice of what weight you want to be and no stat requirements. They already have a new system they are working on for stats, so it should solve this issue for you.
I am still new to this game and haven’t even gone into the crucible yet. I’ve just decided to put some points into str to go sword and shield build. I only put as much as is required to use the weapon for now; although, I’m guessing putting more stats will increase the damage output. I don’t mind the challenge though, and until the game makes me use stats from difficulty then I’ll just wait to use my stat points. I put just enough load capacity points in to keep full leather in the medium weight range (where I think it should be).
I think, overall, your concerns are already in the works of being addressed though.
I’m on a similar situation to yours… played since “early access” dropped and for a while… (I didn’t play as much as I would’ve mostly because the main draw was the promised co-op feature) been away since and came back for ‘The Breach’ because I did like the game back then so to check how the things are progressing… and while I’m still positive about it overall (including most changes), I agree with your points… kinda, cuz apparently you have progressed more than I, and I thought the “inflexibility” I felt the 1st time around would have been addressed…
well, they seem to be on the right path, I have prepared myself (saving lvl up char points, considering progression paths beforehand, etc), but wasn’t expecting the situation you just described… guess I need to keep playing and find out how it will affect my particular situation…
Great feedback tho, thanks… XD
i think we get the crucible quest too early. u basically get it right away. if u are then bold enough to follow it u stumble in the crucible with lvl 10 or so, getting mauled.
as for the crucible scaling with the player? does it though? i thought it was always balanced around lvl 21+. wouldn’t have noticed any change of that.
my first few crucible runs were excruciating, because i did not have an optimized build either. until i farmed for a better weapon, with better enchantments and went in fully upgraded and optimized. i do think that the respec option should not be locked behing reaching seneshal in the crucible though. i think that has been discussed here and on discord a few times. after all, when we finished the story we want to respec FOR the crucible.
Hi Sir_Vive, thanks for taking time to read my post!
Heavy definitely shouldn’t be dreaded (that’s how I’ve played all of the souls games, so I’m used to some of the setbacks), but there are a few heavier hitting enemies that have 360 degree / 5 hit combo / high damage attacks that make it really difficult. Not being able to telegraph some attacks (EX: an overhead swing or 360 spin has very little fortelling for the large axe enemies) makes dodging or parrying frustrating cause you’ll get combo’d to death before you can respond. My hope as a heavy was high stam cost but high stagger chance, which if stam is invested in, would allow you to counter or follow up at least once. Right now though, if I do stagger someone with my 2 handed weapon they are up and dodging before I can get a follow-up attack done. Charge up attacks are a huge risk at that point, as the attack is slow enough that charging usually allows the enemy to attack after their stun, or dodge off-screan before your attack begins.
The stat point are definitely something I’m sure the team is working on, maybe I am just too hasty with spending my points. I’m used to knowing that I want to build a certain way, but the lack of knowing what I’m building toward here set me back a bit. Also, I had no clue what the level cap was, so hitting 30 and being 1 point shy of the weapon I wanted to try out was sad. I am looking forward to the changes they have planned for sure!
As for crucible, I am all for the challenge of an area, but most of the enemies are in groups that can attack simultaneously. For the issues I had listed above with a heavy weapon, fighting groups of enemies is a nightmare since they can dodge and respond quicker than you can. If you attack once and miss, you’ve lost a huge chunk of stam and rolling is going to be costly (while not always giving you enough room to recover).
Again, thank you for the response, and I hope you continue enjoying your playthrough!
Heya Canis, thanks for taking the time to respond!
I’m looking forward to the class system they have planned, it should really take some of the mystery out of build paths. Not getting some of the cooler weapons until after the current endgame and realizing I’m stuck with a poorly optimized build has definitely hurt my first experience. Keeping you points and only using what’s needed is a much better choice than the way I played!
Hi Chemile0n, thanks for taking time to respond!
I could agree with that for sure, maybe opening up the Crucible after making it through the nameless pass the first time would be helpful. Honestly, running into Elsa in that Cerim monument would be a really cool way to start off that questline. I enjoyed how getting the potion maker worked in the first area, so having a similar thread here could work out. Also gives the player more time to focus on exploring and learning how they want to engage with the combat. Even if they wanted to keep the respec option behind the crucible, I would still like the different levels to be locked in some way, just so progress can be made to the point respeccing is an option.
I haven’t been on the discord much, I should see the conversations over there. I wanted my first bout of feedback to be just my own so I’ll make sure to engage with the rest of the conversations now as well. Thanks again for commenting!
Hey, I feel you completely with the “Stats” thing on weapons.
First everything was fine till lvl 13 I guess - and i put stats into stamina, health, equip load and even strength because my sword was based on it (10str)
I found a really good weapon that needed 26 faith, so i put it in, so I could upgrade my weapon to another one.
After a while that weapon was not good anymore and I found another one, that needed 26 dex.
Had to level till 30 so I could have 26 dex, 26 faith and the rest…
then I found out this weapon sucks in endgame and I need heavy weapons that need 42statpoints…
I couldnt beat the cruicible to lvl 5 to respec and almost quit the game, but I tried really hard to beat that and now iam available to respec - oh my god Im so happy, but the game almost lost me and it will lose alot of players because of that “respec-lock” cruicible lvl5.
they should reward you at lvl 30 with respec, and everything would be fine I guess.
Gotta be honest, my 1st time around I didn’t play around the crucible cuz wasn’t there yet, I did venture in there this time (The Breach update), and while I can’t comment on the changes (if any) I can say that as of right now its purpose is not well explained to new players (or I’m just oblivious LOL)… even tho as Chemile0n mentioned, the quest is there from the get go, I didn’t really go in until I was around lvl 10-15… for one, it asks for a sacrifice, which lore wise is fine, but is not clear what it entails (yeah I know, mystery and all that, fine)… but then from the 1st arena enemies are in groups, as you’ve mentioned, and even tho I’m not playing a “heavy” char (I’m partial to fast/agile builds) is kinda challenging still… specially without a build, since every time you go in is a different tile-set… what I really mean is, is very clear is a challenge mode, but the purpose is not as clear… I assumed I needed a better build, maybe better stats, and just went on playing the regular “campaign” (tho there is no real distinction made in game, since is set as a regular quest or whatever)…
And then, I’ve notice some quirks of the leveling system as well… not every stat point gives you a benefit, depending on the stat you put it in, which is something I don’t really appreciate, IMHO every point investment should give us at least a minor benefit… I’ve been carrying between 2 to 10 points unallocated, for 2 reasons: small changes in weight can have a major impact on my build, so I need tweak my carry capacity from time to time (I don’t know all the gear available in the pool), 2nd is I might need to up some stats due to requirements for certain gear…
this is a hard balance to achieve… randomized loot might make for interesting surprises (as well as tasty “carrots”), but on the other hand commitment can punish more than reward you… I like EldenRing’s (DarksSouls etc) approach better, I think, where loot is static, and commitments always pay off, as long as “know” what you are doing (this is the tradeoff)… I think NRftW would be better off if we had a easier way to tweak stats… not in “at will” but more accessible I mean… (I did spend a point in faith early game, I now regret, but have no idea to when I will be able to respec)… and this reflects what most new players will experience, as TobStar has described just above…