Dual Dagger Rune Balance and movesets

Having tested some more of a plague facet based Rogue Messer build, I have some feedback on the state of some runes:

1- Dual Flurry is incredibly weak and not worth the 50 focus. For 50 focus it deals less damage than the regular attack sequence, while being stationary and not having longer range tracking lunges that the regular attack chain has. It also costs focus instead of generating it.

To top it off, a dual flurry will not even fill the poise bar of a regular chaff enemy like a Risen footman/bandit, a regular Gloam thrower or Pickaxe Prisoner or the Prisoner Witch or Torn Darter. This is also likely because enemy poise on solo play is massively overbuffed and Prisoner Witches are even facetanking lv30 2H hammer swings, taking 2 of them and still not even being staggered.

Dual Flurry damage is bad, its reach is bad, and it doesn’t even apply some other useful utility like poise break or have a built in dodge.

2- Dual Slash and and Dual Breaker are pretty good and pretty much your best runes for a 100 focus rune attack that has tracking long range lunges with good damage output.

3- Lightning Claw and Dashing Stab are just OK, if not a bit overpriced for what little they contribute over the alternatives.

4- You get a couple of crossover 1h knife runes like Wild Rush that is more or less your highest damage per focus rune but has a long animation time, making it much riskier to getting disrupted out of the animation since baseline player poise is nonexistent and even players in full plate 2H builds get trivially interrupted out of rune attacks by regular mobs.

5- Double Daggers is highly lacking in rune moveset variety, elemental coverage, and analogues to other weapons for high aoe nukes. There is no analogue on daggers for Skyfall Punch or Buster Rift or wide arc spinning slashes that can have aoe coverage against crowds of mobs like other weapons.

You’d think that for this lack of aoe coverage daggers would be compensated in high single target damage or exceptional mobility/coverage/evasiveness, but they’re not. Their movesets are just generally inferior to other weapons.

6- Several runes are locked behind uniques or very low % acquisition chance from the Seneschal vendor. Pierce Dodge and Tornado Spin are practically unavailable outside those uniques. This makes the already small and limited dual dagger rune kit even more restricted. And since these unique daggers like most unique weapons are really bad outside Lacquered Bow(which has a really overtuned regular attack but really poor rune kit that is just there to prop up the regular attack).

Of course, with current gear % scalars you can make any endgame build relatively good damage wise to cover up these shortcomings, but I imagine those % damage affixes and the especially OP gems are adjusted or removed, the warts and blemishes of this weapon type will become painfully obvious.

The one thing going for daggers is that they’re just better gauntlets with more reach/lunges built into the regular attack chain and less animation lock, while gauntlets have a much better rune attack spread, but both weapons are still notably worse than 1H swords and maces, and even some 2H endgame weapons and wands, in both damage output and cleave/reach without compelling compensation upsides.

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I wish the devs spent more time balancing movesets, weapons, and enemy values instead of wasting time adding more RNG to the game.

I bet you do.. that would be the worst thing to do as you already know that they are gonna bring more stuff into game sooner or later so they probably balance a bit before it gets released into the game but the last bits of balancing should come after everything has been put together.

Well there are some other game titles that focused the balancing aspect directly but the content that they released after was underperforming to the extent where it would take too much time to fix those because they had already put most of their time into balancing the first bits.

Every dlc that came after was even underperforming they said it was an upgrade but you went backwards in total stats by using those new gear pieces.

Therefore balancing should be kept to a minimum or bit by bit to make everything easier to follow up on later otherwise you setup for a full rebalance of everything.

What you’re talking about are MMOs, where there is constant vertical progression. What I am talking about is balancing weapon categories at a broad level- many weapon categories as a whole are underperforming based on moveset and weapon speed.
In MMOs, it’s mainly the stats that matter since movesets aren’t all that important. Here it is supposed to be more skill based and it’s not about the stats but aspects intrinsic to the category itself.

Nope.
Not talking about MMOs.

(i should probably say “numbers” or “numerical values” or even “Numerical Animation Parameters” instead of “stats” next time)

yeye my bad, still it doesnt take away my point where balance should be kept at a minimum while they are rolling out more content, then after that they can probably focus more on what you say :wink:

Im talking about order of doing it.:upside_down_face:

Im really not against what you are saying, i just dont see why the rush with having to do it NOW, when they can do it later or as i said bit by bit?
(a little bit here and there, now and then)

They have even done small adjustments to some movesets even replaced/shortened/removed some movesets, and even completely destroyed some weapons who worked really good before.. well it happens and they are probably not finished.
:grin:

Gotcha, I hope you are right and they eventually get around to balancing the weapons before 1.0 comes out.

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