Ranged (bow) combat improvement suggestions

Wicked Feedback
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1

Before I start, I would like to point out that I am aware of and agree with the initial design choice of not favoring 100% ranged combat.

:question: What problems does the current system present?

  1. It’s not immersive

The arrows don’t come from anywhere, they’re generated by consuming focus or stamina, which doesn’t make much sense (but I also understand that it’s all fiction/fantasy, I’m just asking for a bit of realism hahaha)

  1. It’s unbalanced

Nowadays, generating focus is made much easier through enchantments on equipment. All the restrictions on the bow’s skills and shots come from a resource that is very easy to obtain, even with the use of those same skills. The limiting factor (which was supposed to be the focus and the stamina) no longer exists, since rune attacks (which cost focus) often end up generating MORE focus than the initial one, allowing for an infinite spam of shots and bow skills, which go against the proposal to limit this type of gameplay.

:warning: My suggestion is to implement ammunition (arrows) in the game. A limited number of arrows will mean that the player has to choose the best strategy in each situation. They can, for example, eliminate a ranged enemy from afar more quickly and spend several of his ammunition that way and then focus on melee enemies with his own close-range weapons.

:bow_and_arrow: Ways to implement arrows in the game (these are ideas that can be applied independently of each other or not, it would be up to whoever is balancing the game):

  1. Add a new offhand item type “quiver” with different modifiers for maximum arrow capacity, additional damage, increased attack speed, generation of arrows every X seconds etc.

  2. Allow arrows to be craftable in town before going on a mission/adventure (but prevent them from being craftable during missions)

  3. Curated arrow drops: allow certain enemy archetypes to always drop arrows when they are defeated (similar to what happens in the Zelda Breath of the Wild and Zelda Tears of the Kingdom games, where arrows are guaranteed to drop from enemies using bows)

  4. Allow all arrows fired (or a percentage of them) to be recovered by looting the body of an already defeated enemy

  5. The bow’s rune attacks should consume at least 1 ammunition as well as focus

2

huh… ok.

A quiver purely for aesthetics but I hope we never get a system like ammo without a huge redesign of the core gameplay.

Thematically, I get it. But the second you add additional restrictions to any weapon it ceases to become a primary weapon.

I’d say you could make the argument that because it’s a ranged weapon it makes sense to give it additional restrictions but then I play melee builds and some of the rune abilities there are outrageously powerful… In addition we already get reduced scaling from ranged weapons, melee attack scales considerably better, especially on large weapons.

In addition you recommend adding a mechanic that you’d then eliminate the need for with mechanic with things like arrow generation.

If we get ammo I’d ask, why not also advocate for weapon sharpening like Monster Hunter? I get the concept but it sounds like tediousness for the sake of tediousness. If can sustain arrows needed to consider it a primary from looting shot arrows, curated arrow drops, and generation in a quiver… Then what have we done aside from add mechanics to help the user accept the notion of shotting arrows.

There’s also bossing to consider, not just mobs. If generating arrows primarily comes from drops and dead enemies you wouldn’t get that same interaction with high HP value target. You’d need some form of recapture? A rune to rip them back out in melee? Since we’re already very limited in runes I can only hope it’d be able to be slotted into any weapon so you can put the recapture ability on a melee weapon. I’m looking forward to the fist weapons coming out and using that with bow instead of knife as I do now.

If we have to put bow in the main weapon slot then I’d hope they still give it parrying. Maybe the backstab animation would be stabbing the target in the neck with an arrow or something.

Focus needed for bows would have to be scaled down tremendously. We also have spells in Wicked, a ranged weapon type that wouldn’t have these restrictions because it doesn’t need a physical representation.

Also we’d need to be able to put runes on the quiver.

If it’d play the same with the “feeling” of arrows. Dope. But me personally I wouldn’t trade bow as a primary for the feeling of arrows.

For the record I’m not here to shit on the idea, just discussion.

3

Definitely do NOT want a system with limited arrows or ammunition. The rune/focus system is global and already provides a limit.

Bows are just in a spot where they were adjusted from a system designed for occasional offhand use. The main bow attack (stamina) now is more costly and limited than the focus-based elemental arrows, which is weird.

But it was done in haste to respond to people wanting Bow or non-melee combat as a main play style, so I have a feeling they are working on adjusting those things.

4

I do think there’s merit but the thing I’m scared of is the archer playstyle is no longer fun, we haven’t had an archer build be possible AND FUN since DD1 and now recently by chance Dragons Dogma 2. And I kinda think DD2 shows it can be just fine & still be fun with unlimited arrows.

5

Longbow and Crossbow in V-Rising also have unlimited arrows and feel amazing to play with. I generally hate ranged playstyles, but that game’s ranged gameplay feels very smooth.