Game fails to teach players that Weapons within the same Category have Unique movesets

Wicked Feedback
1

A major issue in the current early game loop of No Rest for the Wicked is how it discourage weapon experimentation

I watched few playthroughts and many people try one weapon within a specific category, dislike it, and immediately write off the entire weapon type

That’s because they do not know that each weapon has a unique moveset, this is a concept understood in souls likes, but ARPG players have no idea how rich the weapon system is, and the game does a bad job as teaching that

  • UI Friction: only one weapon slot early, so testing a new drop requires annoying menu management
    • you have to open the inventory, find the new weapon, equip it, test it, and then menu again to switch back if you don’t like it, its clunky flow it kills pacing and discourages organic testing
  • RNG Start: early weapon drops are entirely random. If a player gets a weapon that doesn’t fit their immediate preference, they are stuck with a poor first impression of that entire archetype, a common case is the 1st boss great sword, many people find it slow and clunky, as a result, they never try the weapon type anymore later on

Potential solutions:

  • Give 2 weapon slot at the start
  • Convey moveset difference in the item’s lore/description/ui
2

I agree, but it wouldn’t solve the “problem” :

you have to open the inventory, find the new weapon, equip it, test it, and then menu again to switch back if you don’t like it, its clunky flow it kills pacing and discourages organic testing

Because you still have to open menu again and again anyway if the weapon wasn’t suitable for your needs and because there isn’t a way yet to lock weapon slots, so there is no point in giving all weapon slots unlocked before we have the ability to lock weapon slots.

However its a good thought :+1:

I agree and maybe it would make a difference atleast for the minority of some players, but this also wouldn’t solve the problem because of this:

annoying menu management

And because of how almost no game ever has told us from the start how movesets in other games work (except for in the game manuals that we got together with the Game disc inside the Game case or through purchasing special/advanced/limited edition game books/magazines).

Welcome to the digital future with annoying menu management..

Its not really a great start for the Digital future if you’d ask me​:sweat_smile:

i hope this helps someone to get some clarity to one of the problems which can only be identified at the individual level, because Only independent thinking can solve some problems so deeply rooted like this one.

Regardless of my negativity i still agree with your suggestions as i see them at the very least as a good starting point :+1:

:innocent:

3

You are right, the game doesn’t really tell you about different move sets for different weapons. I think the proper way to solve it is simply have a better loot. If you have a weapon and you get a stronger weapon of the same type, you will be inclined to try it and quickly see that the move sets are different. Another way would be to actually label move sets.

4

It wouldn’t really solve the problem because if the assumptions and expectations is based around a certain archetype moveset being the same it wouldn’t make much of a difference if the weapon was stronger..

However you came with a very good answer that actually would be able to solve parts of the problem:

Another way would be to actually label move sets.

Thats a really good answer which i believe goes into item tooltips and @RY_K Potential solutions:

Convey moveset difference in the item’s lore/description/ui

+-------------------------------------------------------+
|  [Icon]  WEAPON NAME                                  |
|          Weapon Type                                  |
| Moveset: Heavy Stance / Colossal                      |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Damage: 120                                           |
| Durability: 80/80                                     |
| Facet: . . .                                          |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| "Lore . . . "                                         |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

Just as an example..

5

This should not be considered a problem, I mean come on! You don’t need to find your weapon archetype before the first boss and by the end of the game, especially with the new class system, players will be experimenting with new weapons during the entire playthrough. It would be a terrible addition to explain to the player that weapons have different movesets in my opinion… This is a perfect example of trying to solve a problem that is not a problem but a great feature of the game, period!

6

I dunno. I am trying to think of a way to convey information through gameplay without breaking the immersion. In addition, so many people have reading problem and when they see “lore” on an item, it’s an “auto skip” option. It’s a solid option to tell people: it’s written right there, though.

I think it would be natural if you a player decided to play with, let’s say a greatsword, and got one at the start and then some time later (let’s make it soon enough to need an upgrade) found a stronger greatsword and switched to that, but that one had a different move set, that would incline quite strongly to most people that weapons have different move sets.

Of course it would not help if, let’s say, someone tried a weapon against 2-3 enemies, decided that weapon is bad and switched on the spot. However, a player would naturally discover the same way that an alternative choice weapon has different move sets, so they might be inclined to go back and try the a different weapon in the first choice category.

Or maybe include animations when you unlock or browse swords at the scribe table. That could do it as well.

7

I actually agree with this!! Showing movesets in this way would actually let players see what kind of weapon they would prefer before they decide what to craft.

8

I disagree with this, showing video ruins discovery!

It should be organic

Showing video means people will never try it for themselves, this is the exact same problem

This game’s combat is about feel, the benchmark should be run by the player

So not only it ruins player discovery, but it also ruins player’s weapon experimentation

My post is about encouraging people to experiment, not to ruin it

9

To be fair, the weapons don’t show up in the scribe table unless you have seen the weapon already so it wouldn’t impact the discovery aspect but rather remind the player which weapon was which. I still think showing the moveset in the scribe table is a nice QoL feature that helps players decide what weapon to actually spend resources on to craft.

10

I both agree and disagree

I agree it would be a good addition to the game but make it into a separate post.

I disagree because it doesn’t help what @RY_K stated for the players first impression;

11

How about make every weapon available at the training dummy, except it’s a ‘training’ version that you can use on the training dummy and you have to return it after trying it out.

12

I think it is an interesting point of discussion.
I do not feel there is any necessity to make this aspect more obvious. In my own experience this realization came naturally by playing the game. Even if you mentally write off an entire category of weapons, if you have a preferred one and find a new weapon from that type that is stronger, for that weapon you will also realize that it’s move set can be different. Thus you can be incentivized to try all weapons you find to see what they offer play style wise.

Discoverability is part of the joy of playing games so too much information could degrade this experience.