Yeah 3 mages with air damage. Huge AOE runes on a lot of the slam attacks. A lack of communication and cooperation get you killed. Your build doesn’t matter. Your cooperation does.
I am not saying it needs to be justified but if a person cannot articulate what makes it not fun then what is being said other than preference? There is nothing elite about maintaining a consistent design philosophy throughout the game. The current iteration is immersive and requires you to think before your next strike.
This isn’t PoE or Diablo. The gameplay feeling is inspired by Dark Souls, an inherently punishing but rewarding game. Your point on Skyrim and Minecraft are moot as those are permadeath systems. That is already a separate mode entirely. The discussion is around standard experience including FF.
When I play mage - I don’t get my friends killed. When my friends play mage - they get me killed a lot. It is a player side issue, it’s meant to create player discourse.
Not everyone is going to sit there and micromanage their friends. Not everyone’s friends are hardcore gamers that know what they’re doing nor want that play style. Especially with the influx of casual players brought in by this game being at the top of steam charts. You list your experience to invalidate theirs when really it only matters what their experience is. Also they did articulate what makes it not fun, they don’t like being hit by teammates, it’s just that you’re own personal opinion believes that they should force all their friends to play the exact way you do instead of having the option of playing the way they want.
No, my point about separate modes aren’t really that moot because every single one of these posts about FF has been about asking for its own defined mode, which those instances I specified were created from the same type of criticism that is happening here, which has zero impact on the standard experience.
It’s very easily an everyone can have their cake and eat it scenario but they get backlash from people like you and that other dude crying “skill issue”.
Co-op experience should be consistent regardless of mode in my opinion. So regardless of condition changes - everyone knows what to expect. It’s not micromanagement, its communication of intent, then reaction. All of my friends, except for one that I have played this with, 6 in total have never played a game like this. Don’t really have this issue and if I die, they just pick me up.
My experience does not invalidate other’s, it is to communicate that I have a hard time understanding how it is an issue. As I do not have it.
I think no FF does belong in easy mode as it caters to that kind of experience. Considering the difficulty can be swapped at anytime we will likely see the realm option for it to be toggled. My sentiment isn’t that there should NEVER be a way to remove it, but that it is the standard experience.
I do agree that people should get to play how they want but within limitation. It should be homogenous to an easy mode.
Could you reach for any lower hanging fruit with the correction?
To some people, yes managing FF between 4 players is micromanagement. This is especially the sentiment with the more casual player base.
Yeah, I also think your opinion is horrible. I could understand if there was any sort of impact on other players like an MMO but I don’t see a reason why small QoL changes like FF shouldn’t be available if players want them. It’s not even a mechanic relevant to the core experience, it did not exist until the co-op update. There are also plenty of instances of games providing the same QoL and and everyone gets to play what they want. It once again has zero impact on the ability for you to play how you want and I think it’s kind of ignorant to impose that on people, especially if you don’t understand their side.
But I’ve elaborated enough and pretty much said all I can. I’ll call it here.
As others have said thos should be an option to turn on or off when u make a new realm.
U like it u can leave it on. Others that dont can turn it off. Having this option doesnt effect those that like Having it on. Nor does u Having it on effect me or anyone else that has it off.
An option for this is the best compromise there is. U can enjoy the game the way u want and it lets others enjoy the game the way they want to
Dont like it go play something else period??? Dude ur not making any argument with this ur being an elitist prick.
This goes both ways. Don’t go telling people what to do cuz this applies to u as well.
I actually think it should probably be the other way around. Getting staggered by allies is frustrating, sure. But it also doesn’t allow you to just tank reduced damage from your friendlies while you all whale on the boss or elite mob or, once PVP gets added… a lone challenger.
Idk if they’re planning to add invasions, or if PVP is primarily going to be an arena thing, but if invasions exist, friendly fire should absolutely stagger.
Even if they don’t, I think it should absolutely stagger, for the previous reasons. You shouldn’t be able to just mob swarm enemies and bosses.
Making FF optional is not a good idea, it would compromise the developers’ vision too much, It would take a redesign of the experience process for a toggle like this.
Not to mention the fact that many people have only started to appreciate FF because they were forced to overcome it. Otherwise they would have disabled it from the options before understanding its strengths.
The souls coop is coop even if it’s weird, even the messages on the floor are coop.
I understand what you mean clearly it’s not the same kind of experience, but it’s still a type of online co-op.
The fact that From has not implemented friendly fire has nothing to do with the fact that the co-op is limited to a short period of time, It’s due to the fact that the summons are online randoms and the experience would have been terrible because of the trolls in dark souls and Elden Ring you can also summon NPCs in the same way, and it would be really stupid to get killed by the NPC that should help you.
In my opinion, friendly fire makes sense, But I think it should be toned down a bit, especially in the early game.
The biggest problem in my opinion is that it forces players to use only certain types of weapons and certain weapon combinations.
Using close-quarters and aggressive weapons like gauntlets and dual daggers is a terrible experience as you always get hit by your allies.
On the other side using a scythe is terrible because you always hit your allies.
It is also true that if you are good at coordinating you can greatly reduce the problem, but Often this also means losing DPS and having more moments of stalemate where you can’t do anything because your ally is attacking.
The problem lies precisely in the fact that using weapons such as bows, spears and rapiers does not require this effort, and the player does not compromise his DPS to avoid hitting allies.
And the result is that all groups have 2 or 3 ranged and 1 or 2 tanks.
Fast melee classes with low/medium health & Poise are already the most difficult to use in solo, and in multi-player between lag and FF it really makes no sense to use them.
Every time I’ve been punished because of the FF, it’s because I’ve been hit by an ally right before an important dodge, sometimes with very light attacks, like an arrow (not charged) or a rapier’s light attack.
If the friendly fire stagger was Reduced the situation would improve.
But probably the best thing to do to solve this situation It’s about giving modifiers to your FF based on the weapon you use:
The scythe (and weapons with which it is difficult not to hit allies) should do less damage to the poise, less stagger, and maybe even less damage to the allies.
Gauntlets (and close-quarters aggressive weapons that always get hit by your allies) should get more stagger resistance, more poise resistance and maybe even more damage resistance From FF.
I agree it would be a good idea to have it based on the weapon, but I disagree with your suggested implementation. Great weapons do so much more damage and stagger, that should be reflected in how they interact with friendlies.
Part of the trade-off in my opinion should be - more area control, more damage, less support from allies.
By all means give more stagger and poise resist to closer range melee weapons, or have a way to alter it through armor, but being able to put great weapon spam behind shorter range weapons is exactly the dynamic I’d like to avoid.
Compromise the developer vision? This wasn’t even a thing for the majority of the games life cycle. It is hardly an impactful mechanic when stuff like ranged weapons, freeze, stagger builds, and mottled pearl builds exist. You don’t need no-friendly fire to trivialize every boss/npc fight, the only difference is in convenience. Adding a toggle will not compromise the developer vision. If you want to enforce a mechanic that many players find annoying for the sake of “vision”, they simply will just not play it. Not to mention, you still have your “vision” with standard settings for the people who want to play a pure experience.
All the problems you talk about are terrible and I criticized them myself, the game is not balanced.
But they need to be fixed and it’s not Responsible to say that since the game is so compromised because of these problems then we screw everything up, even the things that work.
It doesn’t defeat my point. You’re not screwing up anything by adding the option, the mechanic still exists for those that want it. I REPEAT, nothing is getting screwed up because your experience is not impacted whatsoever by this feature.
It’s also just not a good thing to say “hey this mechanic is really annoying due to many deep-rooted flaws with our game but just sit and wait until we fix hopefully everything causing said annoyance even though this feature is notoriously controversial and players may not like its implementation either way”.
Also at the end of the day, this game is an isolated story game. I am not sure why people are so set on extreme optimization in balancing this game for every single player. That is something that shouldn’t be taken to the extreme for these kind of games, it kills the versatility of the game.
If this were true then it could stay as it is and no one would notice. FF makes you play in a significantly different way.
For example it makes you decide to aim at a different enemy than the one your ally is already attacking, it makes you move away from the boss when your ally uses a rune, it makes you communicate more with your allies…
I remind you that this is an early access but I Agree, They did the same thing for the attributes too, they know that attributes are useless and limit the creativity of the builds but instead of eliminating strength, dexterity, faith and intelligence and replacing it with “damage” as a temporary change, I’m forced to wait for 1.0 for the class systems.
But FF was well thought out, it just needs to be toned down a little, is here to stay.
It’s important that the game doesn’t break just because I’m thinking about the build I’m making, a game designed to be difficult where you can accidentally become op has a serious problem.
When you become op the gameplay changes from a tactical souls, with positioning and timing to “spam until you win”.
My brother’s first experience was ruined because he became OP by mistake.
Did all the bosses first try, and it was less than if the game had been balanced properly.
In a game like Elden Ring it’s really difficult for something like this to happen because it’s well balanced.
In a game like Sekiro it is literally impossible to break the game by mistake.
The result is a game that gives a better experience to a large number of players. And it’s also more repayable since the difficulty remains almost the same even if you change builds.